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Dissension among Shias` Sects
ID: 269 Publish Date: 31 January 2016 - 09:08 Count Views: 3206
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Dissension among Shias` Sects

Responding to Wahhabi Doubts

November 30, 2007

Professor Ghazvini:

We had a discussion over the anti-Shia doubts posed by Osman Al-Khamis, a Wahhabi leader; we have already talked about some of them.

One of the other anti-Shia doubts posed by Osman Al-Khamis is: “Shias have disagreements among each other and this issue truly Shias` beliefs are nullified and invalid.”

فإنّ الشيعه هم الذين يقولون بإمامة علي بن ابي‌طالب بعد رسول الله صلي الله عليه و سلم بلا فصلِ و لكنّهم اختلفوا بعد ذلك اختلافاً شديداً في الإمامة.

Shias, those who believe that Imam Ali is the first Imam after Prophet Muhammad, started to have disagreements among each other. Some believed Muhammad Hanife`s Imamat, some Imam Bagher`s Imamat, some Imam Jafar`s Imamat, some Abdullah Ibn-Jafar`s Imamat, some Esmial Ibn-Jafar`s Imamat and that`s when Fathies and Esmailies emerged, some believed Kisani, Zeidi, Fatemi, Ghoramete and etc. To make the long story short, what is he trying to say is the disagreements and the variety of sects shows that there haven’t been a fixed criterion for Shias, if there was, why they have been divided into different types of sects?

We have some responses about this doubt:

The first one is a contradictory response. If you believe that having disagreements in a sect invalidates the sect, I ask you the question that how many sects do you have? Hanafies, Hanbalies, Malekies, Shafeis, Kharijites, Ebazie and others have their own independent system. From the view point of verbal school of thought Ashaere, Motazele, and Matridies all have their own separated system; and if having too many types of sects is considered as an invalidator, what do you have to say about your own sects?

And also if your audience were Zedies and Ghorameties, you wouldn’t have said the same thing; you are saying this because your audience is Shias. Shias, from the time of Prophet and Amir-al-Momeneen, had their own criterion and they haven’t had any type of disagreement up to now. Late Koleini, in Kafi v 1 p 525 chapter Maja Fi Al-Asna Ashar va-al-Nas Alayhem, has written 20 authentic traditions from Jaber-ibn Abdullah Ansari, Abdullah Ibn-Ansar and others about Prophet Muhammad`s emphasizing the word Aema (Imams); It means from time of Shias` emergence, the word Aema (Imams) has been crystal clear. Let me talk about two of the traditions.

The first tradition: Ahmad Bin Muhammad Bin Khaled Borghei and Abi Hashem Davood Bin Ghasem Jafari, Shias` authentic narrators, quote from Imam Javad:

“Once, Amir-al-Momeneen and Imam Mojtaba entered the Masjed-al-Haram and sat around the corner. A man who had a pretty face approached Amir-al-Momeneen and asked: “If you can answer my questions, I will be sure that you are the rightful caliph after Prophet and if you can`t I will consider you just an ordinary Muslim” Amir-al-Momeneen asked Imam Mojtaba to respond to this man`s questions; Imam Hassan responded to all his questions. The man, after receiving his answers, said: “I testify that Muhammad is the messenger of God and you are his successor and after you Imam Hassan and Husain …….” He started naming the Imams and when he uttered the name of Imam Mahdi, he left the mosque. Amir-al-Momeneen said to Imam Hassan: “go and see where is he going?” The more Imam Hassan searched the less he could find him. Amir-al-Momeneen said: “Did you recognize him?” Imam Hassan said: “No” Amir-al-Momeneen said: “He was Khadhir the prophet”

The second tradition: It is quoted from Jaber and it is known as the tradition of Loh (tablet) which Ayatollah Vahid really likes it. Imam Sadegh says:

“Once, my father, Imam Bagher, sent to someone after Jaber Bin Abdullah Ansari; Jaber came. My father said: “Oh Jaber, I demand you let me know about the tablet you`ve received from my mother, Fatima Zahra, the one you wrote something from it. Imam Bagher who was a kid that time went to Jaber`s house. Jaber swore to god and said: “Once I entered Fatima`s house, I saw her holding a paper in her hand; at first I thought it was a diamond; I said: “Oh Fatima, what are you holding?” She said: “It is a gift I have received from Prophet Muhammad in which all the names of Imam have been written” Imam Bagher brought a paper and said: “Oh, Jaber I read this paper and I want you to see whether it is in accordance with the tablet you have received from Fatima or not?” Jaber said: “I read the paper and every names were in accordance with the names in the tablet” Then Jaber started reading the tablet in which the names of Imams from Amir-al-Momeneen up to Imam Mahdi and his companions have been written; even it was written that what kind difficulties Shias will be facing in the time of occultation. Late Koleini, in Kafi, has talked about 20 traditions which all were authentic.

In terms of Imams` names, Shias believe these hadiths; they, from the beginning, knew the name of their first Imam and they had no problems and disagreements. Besides, the names of Shias` Imams have been stated in Sunni books as well. Mr. Hamuyeni, in Faraed Al-Samtin v 2 p 132, and Ghanduzi, in Yanabi Al-Modet v 3 p 282, narrate: “Once, a Jew approached Prophet Muhammad in the mosque and said:

أخبرني عن وصيّك مَن هُوَ؟ فما مِن نبيٍّ إلا و له وصيٌّ، و إنّ نبيّنا موسي بن عمران أوصي الي يوشع بن نون فقال رسول الله: إن وصيي علي بن أبي طالب، وبعده سبطاي الحسن والحسين، تتلوه تسعة أئمة من صلب الحسين. قال: يا محمد فسمهم لي؟ قال: إذا مضى الحسين فابنه علي، فإذا مضى علي فابنه محمد، فإذا مضى محمد فابنه جعفر، فإذا مضى جعفر فابنه موسى، فإذا مضى موسى فابنه علي، فإذا مضى علي فابنه محمد، فإذا مضى محمد فابنه علي، فإذا مضى علي فابنه الحسن، فإذا مضى الحسن فابنه الحجة محمد المهدي، فهؤلاء إثنا عشر.

“Oh Prophet, who is your successor? All prophets had their own successors. Our prophet, Moses, after the demise of Aaron, appointed Joshua Bin Nun as his successor.” Prophet Muhammad said: “My successor is Ali and after him…..”

Neither this book is a Shia book nor Ghanduzi is a Hanafi or Hamueini is a Shafei. Also Mr. Kharazmi about whom Sunnis praise, in Maghat Al-al-Husain p 95 hadith no 203, quotes from Prophet: “When I went for Meraj (the spiritual ascent), I look down on earth and …..

فإذاً علي و فاطمة و الحسن و الحسين و علي بن الحسين و محمد بن علي و جعفر بن محمد و موسي بن جعفر و علي بن موسي و محمد بن علي و علي بن محمد و الحسن بن علي و محمد المهدي كأنّه كوكب درّيّ بينهم،

“ I see Mahdi shining like a star among them; then a voice came from Allah: “Oh Prophet, they are my examples and your successors and I swear on my dignity and power that Mahdi will take revenge against my enemies and he will help my great men”

So, we have to say to Osman Al-Khamis that if we Shias are in 30 sects, you Sunnis are in 60 sects like Hanfi, Maleki, Hanbali, Zaheri, Khareji, Ebazi, Ashaere, Motazele, Matridie …… .Second of all, you are addressing your speech to twelve-Imam Shias whose Imams` names, from the time of Prophet Muhammad and Amir-al-Momeneen, have written in all books; and all Shias, even in the lifetime of Imam Bagher and Imam Sadegh, were aware of their Imams` names and these names have also been stated in Sunni sources.

Let me say something to those object about our sect; the twelve-Imam Shias were familiar with the name of their Imams; Ayatollah Safi Golpayegani, in his unique book called Montakhab Al-Asar, wrote many traditions about this issue. He, in page 99, wrote 91 traditions from Sunni and Shia sources which say:

الأئمة الإثناعشر أولهم عليّ و آخرهم المهديّ

He, in page 105, talked about 94 traditions which say that Imams are twelve people and the last one`s name is Imam Mahdi; He also, in page 143, talked about 50 traditions from Sunni and Shia sources in which the names of all Imams, particularly from Amir-al-Momeneen to Imam Mahdi, have been stated; He in the same book, in page 267, stated 148 traditions that say Imam Mahdi is the ninth child of Imam Husain; In page 279, he stated 99 traditions which say Imam Mahdi is the sixth child of Imam Sadegh; In page 282, he talks about 98 traditions which say that Mahdi is the fifth child of Imam Kazem; In page 285, he talks about 95 traditions which say that Imam Mahdi is the third child of Imam Javad; He, in page 290, talks about 90 traditions which say Imam Mahdi is the second child of Imam Hadi; He, in page 291, talks about 146 traditions which say Imam Mahdi is Imam Asgari`s son; in page 310, talks about 136 traditions which say Imam Mahdi is the twelfth Imam; He, in page 322, he talks about 91 traditions which are about Imam Mahdi`s absence. He, generally, stated 1900 traditions that 50 of them are successive and are about Imams` names, characteristics, and their orders which are taken from the statements quoted by Prophet Muhammad, Amir-al-Momeneen, Imam Husain and Imam Hassan.  

Mr. Osman Al-Khamis might have understood that who are the twelve Imams? If he is addressing his speech to other sects, we don’t have problem with that. He has to ask Zeidies or Esmailies that why they have departed from Shias? They have to respond to this question; because they chose to take a different path; Shias, from the beginning, took a unified path and had the same belief as Ali had.

If they say in response to us: “If we, Sunnis, have three sects, we all believe that the first caliph is Abubakr, the second one is Omar and the third one is Osman and the fourth one is Ali; we don’t have any disagreement; but you have a huge disagreement; each of your sect does not believe the other; they insult each other but our disagreement is like the one of your scholars which is not a serious problem”

We say in response: “you say that there is no serious disagreement between your sects” it is nothing but a false claim; and your sources prove the opposite.

Mr. Sobki, a top Sunni scholar who lived in the time of Ibn-Teimie, in Tabaghat Al-Shafei v 3 p 109, says:

و قد وقع فتنة بين الحنفيّة و الشافعيّة في نيسابور و كثر القتل في الشافعيه و أحرقت الأسواق و المدارس...

“There was conspiracy between Hanafies and Shafeis; Shafeis were all slaughtered; their schools and markets were set on fire; then some people came and helped Shafeis slaughter the Hanafies.”

Mr.Yaghut Hamudi, in Mojam Al-Beldan v 1 p 209, talks about the Isfahan in 554 Hejira:

وقد فشا الخراب في هذا الوقت وقبله في نواحيها لكثرة الفتن والتعصب بين الشافعية والحنفية والحروب المتصلة بين الحزبين، فكلما ظهرت طائفة نهبت محلة الأخرى وأحرقتها وخربتها.

“The disagreement was really intense among Hanafies and Shafeis; they set the houses and markets on fire and destroyed all.”

He again, in page 3 p 117, says:

وقعت العصبية بين الحنفية والشافعية ووقعت بينهم حروب كانا لظفر في جميعها للشافعية هذا مع قلة عدد الشا

فعية إلا أن الله نصرهم عليهم، وكان أهل الرستاق، وهم حنيفة، يجيئون إلى البلد بالسلاح الشاك ويساعدون أهل نحلتهم فلم يغنهم ذلك شيئا حتى أفنوهم، فهذه المحال الخراب التي ترى هي محال الشيعة والحنفية، وبقيت هذه المحلة المعروفة بالشافعية وهي أصغر محال الري.

“There was an intense dispute between Hanafies and Shafeis; and god helped Shafeis overpowered Hanafies; and most of Hanfies were killed in Rey”

Ibn-Asir Jazari, about the incidents occurred in Baghdad in 317 Hejira, says:

وفيها وقعت فتنة عظيمة ببغداد بين أصحاب أبي بكر المروزي الحنبلي وبين غيرهم من العامة ودخل كثير من الجند فيها وسبب ذلك أن أصحاب المروزي قالوا في تفسير قوله تعالى: (عسى أن يبعثك ربك مقاما محمودا) هو أن الله سبحانه يقعد النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم معه على العرش وقالت الطائفة الأخرى إنما هو الشفاعة فوقعت الفتنة واقتتلوا فقتل بينهم قتلى كثيرة.

“Hanbalies struggled with other Sunnis; their main dispute was over the verse:

(عسي أن يبعثك ربّك مقاماً محموداً )

Says that Allah invites Prophet to his throne; some believed the first saying some the second and consequently there happened a struggle among them and plenty of people were killed over this verbal dispute.

Yafei, in Merat Al-Janan v 3 p 343, says:

“There was a disagreement among Shafeis and Hanbalies; the Hanbalies spokesmen went up on the Shafei` pulpits and cursed them and consequently schools and markets were set on fire.”

Interesingly, in Al-Moghani v 3 p 38, it is stated that:

“There was a dispute among Hanafies and Shafeis, in Trebles. When they used to go to mosque, a group said: “The first row is ours” and the other group said : “The first row is ours” If a Hanafi stood in Shafeis` line, they would have thrown him out of the line and told him that he didn’t have right to stand there; Hanafies also did the same. This continued for a while until the ruler ordered: “ Divide the mosque into two parts, half for Hanafies and half for Shafeis”

Considering all these disputes, how could they say they haven’t had any disagreements.

It is interesting that in Tazkarat-al-Hofaz v 3 p 357 and in History of Islam v 33 p 58 it is stated that: Mr. Ibn Hazem Hanbali issued a verdict that:

من لم‌يكن حنبليّاً فليس بمسلمٍ

“Whoever is not a Hanbali, he is not a Muslim”

And in the other hand, in Shazerat Al-Zahab v 3 p 252, it is stated that one of the Hanafi scholar, Abubakr Mohri, said:

كلّ من كان حنبليّاً فهو كافر    

“Hanbalies are apostates”

These disagreements were so intense that the Damascus` Judge, Muhammad Bin Musa Lesani, said:

لو كان لي أمرٌ لأخذتُ جزية من الشافعيّة

“If I had power, I would have ordered to get Jazie from all Shafeis; they are from the debtors”

In response to him, Abu Hamed Muhammad Bin Muhammad Badavi Tusi, a Shfei scholar, issue a verdict that:

لو كان لي أمر لوضعت الجزية علي الحنابله.

They can refer to Al-Ebr Fi Khabar Min-Khabar v 3 p 52 and Shazarat Al-Azhab v 4 p 224, to see these traditions. Their dispute got really intense that Ibn-Nagim, from Egypt, a considerable Sunni Egyptian scholar, in Al-Bahr Al-Reagh, v 2 p 80, says:

قال الشيخ ابوحفص: لاينبغي للحنفي أن يزوّج بنته من رجل شافعي المذهب تنزيلاً لهم منزلة اهل الكتاب.

“No Hanafi is allowed to let a Shafei get marry to his daughter; because Shafeis are the followers of the book”

Mr. Zamakhshari, in Tafsir Kashaf v 4 p 310, says:

إذا سألوا عن مذهبي لم أبح به * وأكتمه، كتمانه لي أسلم

فإن حنفيا قلت قالوا بأنني * أبيح الطلا وهو الشراب المحرم

وإن مالكيا قلت قالوا بأنني * أبيح لهم أكل الكلاب وهم هم

وإن شافعيا قلت قالوا بأنني * أبيح نكاح البنت والبنت محرم

وإن حنبليا قلت قالوا بأنني * ثقيل حلولي بغيض مجسم

وإن قلت من أهل الحديث وحزبه * يقولون تيس ليس يدري ويفهم

تعجبت من هذا الزمان وأهله * فما أحد من ألسن الناس يسلم

وأخرني دهري وقدم معشرا * على أنهم لا يعلمون وأعلم

ومذ أفلح الجهال أيقنت أنني * أنا الميم والأيام أفلح أعلم


“If they ask me questions about my sect, I am ashamed to respond. I deny my sect so that I could live. If I say that I am a Hanafi, they say that I am wine drinker (Hanfies allowed drinking wine) and if I say that I am Maleki, they say that I eat dogs` meat (Malekies used to eat dogs` meat) If I say that I am a Shafei, they say that we, Shafeis, does not allow getting married with girls; if I say that I am a Hanbali, they say : “Leave him be for he is a Hanbali, he believes that God emerged in the form of a human”; and if I say that I am the follower of hadiths and I don’t belong to Malekies, Shafeis, Hanbalies, or Hanafies, they would say: “He is a stupid person and he does not understand anything”

Considering all these disagreements among Sunni sects, they still say: “You, Shias, have a lot of disagreements”

Dr.Sayyed Muhammad Husaini Ghazvini

First and Last Name: Mehrdad Jafari

Date: Sunday, January 6, 2008

رب المهدي:ا...هم عجل لوليك الفرج بسم

Hello to you, the angel of the earth; I really enjoy the way he, Dr.Ghazvini, talks. I believe that he will be a heaven dweller. May god bless you. May god assign you as Imam Mahdi`s comrades; May god hasten Imam Mahdi`s advent.

First and Last Name: Adel Jafari

Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2008

In Tarikh Yaghubi, p 35 line 13, it is stated that: Omar married Ome-Kolsum, Amir-al-Momeneen`s daughter. Is that true? If it is, why such a thing happened?


About this issue, Omar`s marriage with Ome-Kolsum, there is a comprehensive link, please refer to it:

The Information Department

First and Last name: Mahdi Goli Isak

Date: Wednesday, June 30, 2010

I think you can answer my question. Every kid is capable of distinguishing things; why don’t we, adults, understand the meaning of the word ذلک. Whatever it is, it does not differ for me. I think it refers to priority of wisdom over tradition. Like the way we think when we write, or when we believe the domain of unseen by our wisdom. I think god says: “Look for the book for which you have tried for”; we have to read Quran and ask about Quran like newly born kid who likes to ask many question, a kid who is curious about everything. Can you tell me, considering the issues I have already talked about, that why they translated the word ذلک as “This” which refers to the magnificence. Please elaborate this philosophy that why Quran considers wisdom prior to tradition.


Dear friend, the meaning you referred to is one the meanings; there are also other meanings as well. In some other verses of Quran the “ذلک” is like a demonstrative adjective for close object.

ذلكما مما علمني ربي

لا فارض ولا بكر عوان بين ذلك

    To get to know a meaning of an Arabic letter, you should be expert at Arabic literature.

Wish you success.

The Group of Responding Doubts





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