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Debate of Mr“Qazwini” and Mr”Mulla zadah” on Imamat and caliphate
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Debate of Mr“Qazwini” and Mr”Mulla zadah” on Imamat and caliphate

salam tv - March 14, 2007

 

Firt Part
 
 

Second Part

 In The Name Of God

Date: March 14, 2007

Mr.”Hedayati

Some questions left from last session, I’ll ask you these questions while contacting Mr.”Mullazadah”.

If Hadrat “Ali” [AS] didn’t have any problem with caliphs, so why did he name his three of his sons “Abu-Bakr”, “Umar” and “Uthman”?

Master “Husseini Qazwini”:

In the last session, someone asked that how many wives and children did “Ali” [AS] have? And amongst his children, there are guys named “Abu Bakr”, “Umar” and “Uthman”.

While martyrdom, commander of the faithful Ali [AS] had four spouses:

“أمامه بنت أبي العاص، ليلا بنت مسعود، أسماء بنت عميس و أم البنين”

Amongst his children, one of them was called “Umar” from “Umm Habib bint Rabia” and another son called “Uthman”, brother of “Abbas”, from “Umm al-Banin”, and another son named “Abu-Bakr”, brother of “Ali Akbar” [AS] from “Leila bint Mas’ud”.

In the books written by Sunnis, this matter has been paid attention a lot that naming some of his sons after three caliphs shows that Hadrat “Ali” [AS] was in good term with them. Wahhabis publish this matter on the internet as well.

There is no doubt that one of commander of the faithful [AS]’s children was “Umar” whose mother was “Umm Habib bint Rabia” and this child is the last child of “Ali” [AS].

Point is that why commander of the faithful [AS] named him “Umar”. in response we draw the attention of those who maneuver on this matter to what Mr. ”Baladhuri” who is amongst Sunni famous figures, has said in this regard in “Genealogies of the Nobles book:

When this child of commander of the faithful [AS] was born, second caliph said: would you mind if I name this child, commander of the faithful [AS] said nothing.

Genealogies of the Nobles – v 2, p 413

“و كان عمر بن الخطاب سمي عمر بن علي بإسمه”

Umar” named “Ali” [AS]’s child after himself.

Ibn Hajar Asqalani”- Tahzib al-Tahzib- v 7, p 427 /// “Al-Dhahabi”- Siyar al-A’lam al-Nubala- v 4, p 134 /// “Al-Baladhuri”- Genealogies of the Nobles - p 92

Of course this matter has been quoted from grandson of “Umar ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib” {Isa bin Abdullah bin Muhammad bin Umar} in “The history of Damascene” book from “Ibn Asakir”:

He was asked that why did your grandfather commander of the faithful Ali [AS] name you “Umar”? He answered: my grandfather Hadrat “Ali” [AS] had a newly born son and he was named “Umar” at the request of second caliph.

So, this matter got clear that second caliph selected the name of this child. And it’s written in history that at the time of his caliphate, second caliph “Umar” would change the name of people’s children, for instance: it’s written in “Usdul Ghabah fi Ma’rifat -Us- Sahaba” from “Ibn Athir” book v 3, p 284, that “Umar” said to “Abraham Ibn Harith”:

Why did you name yourself “Abraham”? name yourself “Abd ar-Rahman”.

When they would change the name of those who had named themselves after a prophet, “Umar” changed the name of “Abraham bin Harith” to “Abd ar-Rahman bin Harith”.

Umar” said to “Tuhail binRabah”:

I don’t like this name, name yourself “Khalid”.

Despite of we have narrative in which we were said not to name someone “Khalid”.

Ibn Abi Shayba”- al-Musanaaf- v 1, p 61

The name of Mafrouq’s father was “Ajda’”, second caliph said:

I don’t like this name, name yourself “Abd ar-Rahman”.

Ibn Sa’d”- al-Tabaqat al-Kubra- v 6, p 76

He said to “Qalil bin Salt”:

It’s not good name, change it to “Kathir”.

Al-Mizzi”- Tahzib al-Kamal- v 24, p 128

It shows that second caliph would meddle in people’s family affairs and in my opinion it’s blow the dignity of an Islamic ruler meddling in such things. If that guy’s name were “Bati” and “Umar” said to that guy changing it, it would be acceptable, but “Abraham” is the name of a prophet and saying someone changing it to another name is not acceptable morally, intellectually and commonly.

Now question is that why commander of the faithful [AS] didn’t protest to this act of second caliph?

If you take a look at history, you’ll understand that second caliph had a whip and using that whip, he’d beat anyone he wanted. It’s been quoted from “Shu’bi” who is amongst Sunni big scholars:

“كانت درة عمر أهيب من سيف الحجاج”

Umar’s whip was even scarier than Hajjaj ibn Yusuf’s sword.

Ibn Khalkan”- Wafiyyat al-A’yan- v 3, p 14 – “Ibn Abi’l-Hadid”- Comments on the Peak of Eloquence – v 1, p 181

If you take a look at history, you’ll see that Mr. ”Abu Hurayrah” that Sunni’s most comprehensive narratives return to him, says: at the time Umar’s caliphate, I wouldn’t dare to quote narrative:

“لقد حدثتكم بأحاديث لو حدثت بها زمن عمر بن الخطاب لضربني عمر بالدرة”

Narratives that I quote now, if I’d quoted them at the time of “Umar”, he’d have whipped me.

Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr” – Jami’ Bayan al-‘ilm- v 2, p 121

Or he’d whip those who would say prayer after “Asr” prayer and many were beaten up by him due to doing so. “Ibn Abd al-Barr” quotes from “ibn Abbas”:

“عن إبن عباس قال: مكثت سنتين أريد أن أسأل عمر بن الخطاب عن حديث ما منعني منه إلا هيبته حتي تخلف في حج أو عمرة في الأراك الذي ببطن مر الظهران لحاجته فلما جاء و خلوت به قلت يا أمير المؤمنين أني أريد أن أسألك عن حديث منذ سنتين ما يمنعني إلا هيبة لك قال فلا تفعل إذا أردت أن تسأل فسلني فإن كان منه عندي علم أخبرتك و إلا قلت لا أعلم فسألت من يعلم قلت من المرأتان اللتان ذكرهما إنهما تظاهرتا علي رسول الله صلي الله عليه و سلم قال عائشة و حفصة”

It was long time that I wanted to ask second caliph {Umar} something, but I’d scare of him. During “Hajj” ritual, I found him in a private place and told him: I’m afraid asking you question. “Umar” said: ask, I said: as for this verse of Quran which is about two wives of prophet [PBUH], which one of them does it contain? He said: “Ayesha” and “Hafsa”.

Ibn Abd al-Barr”- Jami’ Bayan al-‘ilm- v 1, p 112

Ibn Abbas”, a person with such greatness says: I’d scare of second caliph.

As for that child of commander of the faithful Ali [AS] that was called “Abu-Bakr”, it wasn’t his name but “Abu-Bakr” was his nickname, what matter is denomination by parents, but nickname is given to someone by people or due to different occasions.

 As for “Uthman”, son of “Ali” [AS], “Abu al-Faraj al-Isfahani” says in his book “Maqatil al-Talibiyyin” that commander of the faithful Ali “AS” said:

“إنما سميته بإسم اخي عثمان بن مظعون”

I named my son “Uthman” because I liked my brother “Uthman”.

Maqtil al-Talibiyyn”, p 55

On the other hand, naming his children after caliphs wasn’t because “Ali” would like them, it was because these names were common names at that time

So that’s got nothing to do with “Ali” [AS]’s good relationship with them.

Beginning of debate

Topic of conversation: Imamate and caliphate

Mr.”Mullazadeh” {Sunni}

Prophet [PBUH] would see his companions, who are the second miracle of prophet [PBUH], the same as his “Ahl al-Bayt” [AS] and see them united with “Ahl al-Bayt”, with the same belief and religion as them, but you have another idea that you’ll talk about it more.

As for your tendency that Imamate is the same as prophecy and even higher than that, in our opinion, respecting to you and dear viewers, it’s one the biggest plots against Islam and even “Tashayyu’”. Because this concept of Imamate that Shias- who believe in twelve Imams- believe in it has no authentic document neither in “Quran” nor in Prophet Muhammad [PBUH]’s Sunnah, but the first guy who discussed this matter in Islam was a ”Rabbi” who pretended to be Muslim named “Abdullah bin Saba’” who was amongst “Yemen” Jewish people, and he was the first guy who discussed this matter in Islam “Imamate means executorship from prophet [PBUH]”. And formerly, when he was Jewish, he had said such thing about “Aaron” [AS] and his dynasty and then he discussed it in Islam.

When commander of the faithful Ali “Ali” [AS] heard about this exaggeration, he punished him exiling him to “Yemen”.

And “Abdullah bin Saba’” was the first guy who openly said this matter and arrested those who were the opponent of this matter.

 Both Sunni and many of Shia brothers such as: Mr.”Kashi”, one of the scholars of “Rejal” science in “Rejal Al-Kashi” book, p 108, and “Nubakhti” in “sects of Shia”, book, p 2 and… confess that this guy was originally Jewish and would say that “Joshua ibn Nun” [AS] is the executor of “Moses” [AS], he said such thing about “Ali” [AS] when he pretended that I’m Muslim.

It means that the same old plot that drew Christianity into destruction was reestablished by him in Islam.

Ali ibn Babawayh Qummi” who has written about “Shia beliefs” in the fourth century, discusses this matter that they believe that each prophet has an executor and Prophet Muhammad [PBUH]’s executor is “Ali” [AS] and then he cites the name of other executors, as well as Mr.”Majlisi” has mentioned to such thing in his book.

But about the concept of Imamate, such belief {that Imamate is the same as prophecy} has been the belief of those who would exaggerate that Imam “Sadiq” [AS] has put curse on them.

These beliefs have become the necessity of religion and sect, and this is where Imam “Sadiq” [AS] says:

Exaggerators {those who exaggerate about Imamate} are worse than Nazarenes and the Jews.

Extremism and exaggeration that Shia Imams [AS] and Sunni Imams were against them have become the necessities of Shia sect {Shias who believe in twelve Imams}. Now, Imamate has become divine position like prophecy. As god selects prophets for prophecy, he selects guys for the position of Imamate. So in Shia opinion the concept of Imamate is the same as prophecy, god selects his prophet and Imamate is like prophecy and Imam is the same as prophet, Allamah “Majlesi” says:

Just because of respecting Prophet Muhammad [PBUH], we say that Imams are not Prophet otherwise we make no difference between them.

Al-Majlisi”- Bihar al-Anwar- v 26, p 82

This is what they say about Imamate. to reject it, we say that there isn’t even one clear and explicit verse about it in god’s book {Quran}

And Imamate is not one of principles of religion but it’s amongst usual “Ahkam” {Ahkam is a reference to the Islamic commandments, derived and understood from religious jurisprudence resources} of religion which has been abdicated to the second caliph of Muslims, but as for this matter that how themselves select government:

وَ أَمْرُهُمْ شُورَي بَيْنَهُمْ

Those who answer their Lord, establish the prayers, and their affairs are by consultation; who spend of that which We have given them

Sura, Ash-Shura / 36

So Imamate is not amongst principles of religion, otherwise it’d be in Quran, like: “Wudu”, “Hajj”, “Zakat” and many other religious obligations.

It’s written in “Asl al-Shia” book that like prophecy, Imamate is a divine position as well, or “kuleini” says in his book “Al-Kafi” v 1, p 175, Imamate is higher than prophecy position, “Jaza’eri” says:

General Imamate is higher than prophecy.

Such exaggerations and extremism weren’t in early Shia, such things appeared later on and have got nothing to do with “Ahl al-Bayt” [AS], Quran and Sunnah, and this belief has influenced them so much that they even changed prophet [PBUH]’s hadith, changing the word “Shahadatayn” {The shahadatayn are the two declarations of faith that mark the entry of a person into the fold of Islam} to “guardianship”:

 “بني الإسلام علي خمس: الصلاة و الزكاة و الصوم و الحج و الولاية”

Foundation of Islam is five things: saying prayer, Zakat, fasting, Hajj, guardianship.

Kuleini”- Kafi- v 2, p 18

In this hadith they’ve deleted “Shahadatayn” that its concept is amongst the principles of Islam and replaced it by “guardianship” and took it higher than prophecy as well.

There is no doubt that it’s kind of straying and there isn’t even one verse in Quran mentioning Imamate and its beginning was secret and it became public later on and I’ll talk about it that this secret project was used against Muslims’ power and caliphate. But it’s enough for us that there isn’t any explicit verse about Imamate in Quran, and Hadrat “Ali” [AS] himself didn’t believe in Imamate, that’s why he would know the root of his caliphate public not divine, he says in “Nahj al-Balagha”:

“إنه بايعني القوم الذين بايعوا أبا بكر و عمر و عثمان فإن اجتمعوا علي رجل و سموه إماما”

Those who swore allegiance with “Abu-Bakr” and “Umar”, swore allegiance with me either.

Nahj al-Balagha” – letter 6

Master “Qazwini”:

He said that Imamate was made during the caliphate of third caliph {Uthman} by a guy named “Abdullah Saba’”, this fact that “Abdullah bin Saba’” didn’t exist is what both Shia and Sunni scholars believe.

If we refer to Quran, we’ll see that special importance has been given to Imamate and caliphate, god says about Hadrat “Abraham” in Quran:

“إِنِّي جَاعِلٌ فِي الْأَرْضِ خَلِيفَةً”

When your Lord said to the angels: 'I am placing on the earth a caliph…”

Sura Al-Baqara / verse 30

يَا دَاوُودُ إِنَّا جَعَلْنَاكَ خَلِيفَةً فِي الْأَرْضِ

{We said}: 'David, we have made you a caliph in the earth

Sura Sad / verse 26

As god says about Hadrat “Abraham” [AS]

وَهَبْنَا لَهُ إِسْحَاقَ وَ يَعْقُوبَ وَ كُلًّا جَعَلْنَا نَبِيًّا

 We gave him Isaac and Jacob. Each of them we made a Prophet.

Sura A-Maryam / verse 49

God says about Imamate:

“إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا”

I have appointed you as a leader for the nation.

Sura Al-Baqara / verse 124

When Hadrat “Moses” [AS] asked god:

“وَ اجْعَلْ لِي وَزِيرًا مِنْ أَهْلِي * هَارُونَ أَخِي”

Appoint for me a minister from my family, Aaron, my brother.

Sura Ta-Ha / verses 29-30

And god says:

“قَالَ قَدْ أُوتِيتَ سُؤْلَكَ يَا مُوسَي”

He replied: 'Moses, your request is granted.

Surah Ta-Ha / verse 36

So the generalities of matter of Imamate or caliphate have written in “Quran” and it shows that appointing Imam and caliph is done by god and there are many narratives in Sunni books from Sunni scholars that Imamate and caliphate are a divine position it’s neither in the hands of prophet [PBUH] nor people.

Ibn Habban” who is amongst famous Sunni scholars, he says in “Al-Thuqat” book:

When Prophet Muhammad [PBUH] was proselyting Islam religion in “Mecca” vicinity, people of “Bani ‘Amirah” went to him and said: O messenger of god! We accept believing in you, provided after you:

“أيكون لنا الامر من بعدك؟ فقال رسول الله صلي الله عليه و سلم الامر إلي الله، يضعه حيث يشاء”

We take the caliphate and succession, prophet [PBUH] said: it’s in the hands of god to select caliph and Imam and he puts anyone he wants as caliph and Imam.

Al-Thuqat”, Ibn Habban- v 1, p 89 // “Al-Zeini al-Duhlan”, Sirah al-Nabawiyyah, v 1, p 147

And prophet [PBUH] sent letters to other guys such as: “’Amir ibn Tufail” “Beihara” and “Hozah bin Ali Hanafi”. It’s written in “Al-Tabaqat al-Kubra” book from “Ibn Sa’d” that prophet [PBUH] sent letter to “Hozah ibn Ali Hanafi” and invited him to Islam, he said in response:

I have good position amongst people and if I proselyte for you, many people will listen to me, I’m ready to cooperate provided I become caliph after you. Prophet Muhammad [PBUH] said: appointing caliph isn’t in my hand and god does so.

Tafsir al-Tha’labi”- v 5, p 276 /// “Tarikh Tabari”- v 2, p 84

There are many narratives in Sunni and Shia books regarding event of “Al-Ghadi Khumm”, and about this verse:

“يَا أَيُّهَا الرَّسُولُ بَلِّغْ مَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْكَ مِنْ رَبِّكَ وَ إِنْ لَمْ تَفْعَلْ فَمَا بَلَّغْتَ رِسَالَتَهُ”

O Messenger, deliver what is sent down to you from your Lord; if you do not, you will not have conveyed His Message.

Sura Al-Maeda / verse 67

It’s written in Sunni resources and Tafsir books that “Ibn Marduyah” and “Ibn Abbas” say about above verse:

“كنا نقرأ في زمن رسول الله «بَلِّغْ مَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْكَ مِنْ رَبِّكَ» بأن عليا مولي المومنين”

Al-Suyuti”, al-Durr al-Manthur- v 2, p 298 /// al-Shukani, Fath al-Qadir, v 2, p 60

And appointing Imam is in the hand of god and this imamate is not given to oppressors:

وَ جَعَلْنَاهُمْ أَئِمَّةً يَهْدُونَ بِأَمْرِنَا

And appointed them leaders to guide by our command.

Sura Al-Anbiya / verse 73

“إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا قَالَ وَ مِنْ ذُرِّيَّتِي قَالَ لَا يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ”

Sura Al-Baqara / verse 124

All these things are in Quran, as the generalities of saying prayer are in Quran. As it’s not written in Quran that “Fajr” prayer has two “Rakat” and “Asr” prayer has four “Rakat”, it’s not written in Quran that who caliph is. But generalities of Imamate are written, Prophet Muhammad [PBUH] said:

“خلفائي بعدي اثنا عشر”

After me, twelve persons will be caliph.

Sahih Bukhari”- v 8, p 127 /// “Sahih Muslim”, v 6, p 3 /// “Hakim Naishapuri” al-Mustadrak alaa al-Sahihain- v 3, p 617

Another point is that in the third year of Hegira when this verse was sent down prophet [PBUH] invited forty elders of “Quraysh” tribe:

“وَ أَنْذِرْ عَشِيرَتَكَ الْأَقْرَبِينَ”

Warn your tribe and your near kinsmen.

Sura Ash-Shu’ara, verse, verse 214

And in that gathering prophet [PBUH] brought up the matter of caliphate and said:

“أول من يعاضدني في هذا الأمر فهو أخي و وصي و خليفتي من بعدي”

Tarikh Tabari”- v2, p 63 /// “Ibn Athir”- The complete history- v 2, p 63 /// “Haskani”- Shawahid al-Tanzil- v 1, p 486 /// “Ibn abi’l-Hadid”, Comments on the Peak of Eloquence- v 13, p 211 /// “Tafsir Tha’labi”- v 7, p 182

Mr.”Mullazadeh” said in his talks that the matter of caliphate wasn’t discussed at all while this event happened in the third year of Hegira. {Three years after prophets [PBUH] emigration from Mecca to Medina}

Many of Sunni scholars have said that this narrative is authentic, such as: “Al-Haythamy” in “Majma’ al-Zawa’id”, v 8, p 302 and “Hakim Nishapuri” in “al-Mustadrak alaa al-Sahihain v 3, p 132 and “al-Muttaqi Hindi” has quoted in “Knaz al-Ummal” book that “Ibn Jarir al-Tabari” has said that this narrative is authentic and tens of others scholars.

Prophet [PBUH] said about commander of the faithful [AS]

 “عليا مني و انا منه و هو ولي كل مومن بعدي”

After me, this “Ali” is the guardian of each believer.

Prophet said this sentence ten years after prophetic mission and has got nothing to do with Uthman’s caliphate and “Abdullah bin Saba’”. “Hakim Nishapuri” said about this hadith:

“هذا حديث صحيح علي شرط مسلم”

Hakim Nishapuri”- al-Mustadrak alaa al-Sahihain- v 3, p 111 and 134, “Musnad Ahmad”, v 4, p 438, “Sunan at-Timidhi”- v 5, p 296

And Hadith “al-Thaqalayn” in which prophet Muhammad [PBUH] put his “Ahl al-Bayt” next to “Quran”:

“اني تارك فيكم الثقلين كتاب الله و عترتي اهل بيتي ان تمسكتم بهما لن تضلوا بعدي”

Sahih Muslim”- v 7, p 123- “Hakim Nishapuri”, Mustadrak alaa al-Sahihain, v 3, p 109, 110 /// “Al-Baihaqi”- al-Sunan al-Kubra- v 10, p 1114, “Al-Haythami”, Majma’ al-Zawa’id, v 9, p 163 /// “Tafsir al-‘Alusi”- v 6, p 194 /// “Ibn Sa’d” al-Tabaqat al-Kubra, v 2, p 194, “Musnad Ahmad”- v 3, p 14 /// “Nisa’I”- al-Sunan al-Kubra- v 5, p 45

Or Hadith “Tair” that prophet [PBUH] said:

God send for me the one who is the best creature with you, no one went other than Hadrat “Ali” [AS].

Hakim Nishapuri”- al-Mustadrak alaa al-Sahihain, v 3, p 130 /// “Al-Haythami”- Majma’ al-Zawa’id- v 9, p 126 /// “Al-Tabarani”- al-Mu’jam al-Awsat-  v 3, p 374

And Hadith of “Manzila” that Sunnis restate that it’s an authentic Hadith.

As for event of “Ghadir al-Khumm”, a hundred thousand gathering in which Prophet Muhammad [PBUH] said that after me, Hadrat “Ali” [AS] is the guardian of each believer and people went to commander of the faithful [AS] three days and nights and congratulated him and “Abu-Bakr” and “Umar” were the pioneers of them, they said to Hadrat “Ali” [AS]:

“هنيئا لك يابن ابيطالب، اصبحت مولاي و مولي كل مومن و مومنة”

Ibn Kathir”- al-Bidayyah wa’l-Nihayah- v 7, p 386- “Tafsir Razi”- v 12, p 50, “Haskani”- Shawahid al-Tanzil- v 1, p 203 /// “History of Baghdad”, v 8, p 284 /// “Ibn Asakir“- History of Damascene”- v 42, p 221

And tens of other events during those 23 years which have been recorded in History that show that prophet Muhammad [PBUH]’s most important concern has been the caliphate after him.

Mr.”Mullazadeh” and some other guys say that prophet [PBUH] didn’t appoint caliph and the matter of Imamate hasn’t been in Islam; it seems like he doesn’t know many of historical events, on the other hand, there are many narratives in Sunni resources in which prophet [PBUH] said:

“إن لكل نبي وصي و وارث و أن عليا وصيي و وارثي”

Commander of the faithful [AS] is my executor.

Ibn Asakir”- History of Damascene- v 42, p 392 // “Ibn Shahr Ashub”, Manāqib Al Abī Ṭālib , v 2, p 35 /// “Ibn Hajar Asqalani”- Fath al-Bari fi Sharh Sahih bukhari- v 8, p 114 // “Ibn Athir”, The complete History, v 3, p 154 /// “Khwarizmi”- al-Manaqib, p 85

And many other instances, even when “Abu-Bakr” was dying, “A’isha” and “Hafsah” said to him: Are you going to appoint someone as caliph or not? “Abu-Bakr” himself selected “Umar” as caliph while all protested to him saying:

“قد وليت علينا فظا غليظا”

Ibn abi Shaybah”- al-Musannaf, v 7, p 485 “Al-Shahristani”- al-Milal wa’l-Nihal, v 1, p 25, “Ibn abi’I-Hadid”, v 1, p 164 /// “Ibn Asakir”- History of Damascus, v 30, p 413

And that what will you respond god on the day of resurrection Mr.”Mullazadeh?

Mr.”Hedayati”:

I have a question from both of you.

What happened after prophet [PBUH]’s demise or martyrdom? Explain about this historical fact. We want viewers to know that what happened about Imamate and caliphate after prophet [PBUH].

Mr.”Mullazadeh”:

Shia and Sunni scholars and orientalists have accepted “Abdullah bin Saba’”, Sunni scholars such as: “Ibn Qutaybah”, “Tabari”, “Ibn Abd Rabbih”, “ Asha’ri”, “Ibn Habban”, “Khatib Baghdadi”, “Ibn Hazm Andalusi”, “Shahrastani”, “Ibn Asakir” and … and also Shia Scholars such as: “Nubakhti”, “Qummi”, “Kashi”, “Saduq”, “Ibn abi al-Hadid”, “Jaza’iri” and … all of them accept “Abdullah bin Saba’”. Just recently Allamah “Askari” has searched and said that “Abdullah bin Saba’” didn’t exist. But in scientific and historical discussion, no one can deny him.

And as for your question, prophet [PBUH] had said:

“يأبي الله و المومنون إلا أبا بكر”

Al-Hakim Nishapuri”- al-Mustadrak alaa al-Sahihain, v 3, p 477 /// “Al-Haythami”- Majma’ al-Zawa’id, v 5, p 181

Or that prophet [PBUH] put him {Abu-Bakr} in his place in mass prayer as the leader of prayers, people said when prophet [PBUH] has selected him for our religion, why don’t we select him for our world.

What you {master Qazwini} said is general matter and it’s been in prior nations either and isn’t related to Islam, you say:

وَ جَعَلْنَاهُمْ أَئِمَّةً يَهْدُونَ بِأَمْرِنَا ...

And appointed them leaders to guide by Our Command.

Sura Al-Anbiya / 73

“وَ جَعَلَ مِنْهُمُ الْقِرَدَةَ وَ الْخَنَازِيرَ وَ عَبَدَ الطَّاغُوتَ”

Sura Al-Maeda /60

These are “Ja’l Takwini” {actual creation of something, like: creating creatures} not “Ja’l Tashri’i” {ordaining “Ahkam” by god, like: “obligatory” for saying prayer} and aren’t related to after Islam. and after prophet [PBUH], the best possible event happened. Prophet Muhammad [PBUH] had predicted that people, believers and god accept no one as caliph other than “Abu-Bakr” and believers selected “Abu-Bakr” as it was destined by god and Hadrat “Ali” [AS] - as all Shia and Sunni scholars say- swore allegiance with “Abu-Bakr”, as it’s written in “Al-Gharat” book, v1, p 306:

“فمشيت عند ذلك إلي أبي بكر فبايعته و نهضت في تلك الأحداث حتي زاغ الباطل و زهق و كانت كلمة الله هي العليا و لو كره الكافرون”

When I swore allegiance with “Abu-Bakr”, void was removed and divine word is better, though, infidels don’t like it.

“فتولي أبوبكر تلك الأمور فيسر و شدد و قارب و اقتصد، فصحبته منا صحا و أطعته فيها أطاع الله فيه جاهدا”

Abu-Bakr” took the charge, I was his companion as a praecher. Whenever he was god’s obedient, I followed him as well.

“إن المسلمين من بعده استخلفوا إمرأين منهم صالحين عملا بالكتاب و أحسنا السيرة و لم يتعديا السنة ثم توفاهما الله فرحمهما الله”

After prophet [PBUH], Muslims selected two good persons as his successor. Both of them lived up to Quran and Sunnah and didn’t pass Sunnah.

Al-Gharat”, v1, p 210

Hadrat “Ali” [AS] says:

After prophet [PBUH], believers selected someone and praised him.

But to reject the saying of Mr.”Qazwini” who accused me of being unaware about history, when “Ibn Abbas” said to Hadrat “Ali” [AS]: let’s go asking prophet [PBUH] that if we have any right in caliphate, he said:

“و الله! لئن سألناها رسول الله صلي الله عليه و سلم فمنعناها، لا يعطيناها الناس بعده”

If we ask prophet [PBUH] and he forbids us, they will never give it to us.

On the contrary of your claim, not of narrative that you said have authentic document.

Master “Qazwini”:

The point that our dear said about this verse:

وَ جَعَلْنَاهُمْ أَئِمَّةً يَهْدُونَ بِأَمْرِنَا ...

Sura Al-Anbiya / 73

 That it’s “Ja’l Takwini” is wrong , when god says to Hadrat “Abraham” [AS]:

“قَالَ إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا”

Sura Al-Baqara / 124

If we say it’s “Ja’l Takwini”, so we should say:

“و علي الإسلام السلام”

But about this matter that Abu-Bakr said prayer in prophet [PBUH]’s place, he said it’s a reason that shows that Abu-Bakr’s caliphate was legitimate, I ask him that if this act really shows the legitimacy of Abu-Bakr’s cliphate, so why in “Saqifa” that they made much fuss about it and even “Sa’d bin Ebadah” almost got trampled, not of “Ansar” and “Muhajirin” said that prophet [PBUH] has said:

“يأبي الله و المومنون إلا أبابكر”

Al-Hakim Nishapuri- al-Mustadrak alaa al-Sahihain- v 3, p 477 /// “Al-Haythami”, Majma’ al-Zawa’id- v 5, p 181 /// Musnad Ahmad, v 6, p 144

Why didn’t they mention to this event in “Saqifa”?

Narratives that he said from “Al-Gharat” book, their document is invalid; same goes for other narratives that he mentioned, we’ve already searched about their document.

As for “Ali” [AS]’s allegiance with “Abu-Bakr”, it seems like he’s not read “Sahih Bukhari” book or he didn’t read it well. It’s written In that book for seven or eight times that commander of the faithful Ali [AS] didn’t swear allegiance with “Abu-Bakr” until six months, and after Hadrat “Fatimah” [AS]’s martyrdom, Hadrat “Ali” [AS] and “bani Hashim” tribe swore allegiance, it’s what’s written in “Sahih Bukhari” and “Sahih Muslim” books and Hadrat “Fatimah” didn’t swear “Abu-Bakr” allegiance at all, and according to what’s written in “Sahih Muslim” book, commander of the faithful [AS] didn’t know the caliphate of “Abu-Bakr” and “Umar” legitimate.

It’s written in “Sahih Muslim”, v 5, p 152 that second caliph “Umar” said to commander of the faithful Ali [AS]

“فلما توفي رسول الله صلي الله عليه و سلم، قال أبوبكر: انا ولي رسول الله صلي الله عليه و سلم، ... فرأيتماه كاذبا آثما غادرا خائنا ... ثم توفي أبوبكر و انا ولي رسول الله صلي الله عليه و سلم و ولي أبي بكر، فرأيتماني كاذبا آثما غادرا خائنا”

You two –Ali and Abbas- when “Abu-Bakr” said: I’m the successor of prophet [PBUH], you would know “Abu-Bakr” liar, sinful, tricky and traitor, and after Abu-Bakr’s demise, when I said: I’m the successor of “Abu-Bakr”, you two knew me liar, sinful, tricky and traitor.

This is the explicit text of “Sahih Muslim”. After Hadrat “Fatimah” [AS]’s martyrdom, “Ali” [AS] said to “Abu-Bakr”:

“فأرسل إلي أبي بكر أن إئتنا و لا يأتنا أحد معك كراهية لمحضر عمر”

When you want come to my house, I don’t like you bringing “Umar” with you.

Sahih Bukhari- v 5, p 83

And he also said:

“و لكنك إستبددت علينا بالأمر”

You oppressed us.

Sahih Bukhari- v 5, p 83

These events are quite clear. while discussing the matter of “Saqifah” -in which “Abu-Bakr” was selected as caliph- second caliph said:

“إن الأنصار خالفونا و اجتمعوا بأسرهم في سقيفة بني ساعدة و خالف عنا علي و الزبير و من معهما

Sahih Bukhari- v 8, p 26 // “Al-Bayhaqi”- al-Sunan Al-Kubra- v 8, p 142 // Musnad Ahmad, v 1, p 55

And there are tens of sermons in “Nahj al-Balagha” book in which commander of the faithful [AS] didn’t know them legitimate caliphs.

Mr. Mullazadeh’s question from Master Husseini Qazwini:

This “Ali” that Mr.”Qazwini” has made is different than “Ali” that other Muslims know. If Hadrat “Ali” [AS] didn’t know caliphs’ caliphate legitimate, so why did he name his children after caliphs {Abu-Bakr-Umar- Uthman}, cooperate with them, become their consultant and preacher and Abu-Bakr’s police chief? So in my opinion what you say is what you made in your mind. It’s written in “Talkhis Shafi” book from Shaykh “Tusi” that when commander of the faithful [AS] was asked: aren’t you going to will? He said:

“ما أوصي رسول الله صلي الله عليه و آله فأوصي و لكن إن أراد الله بالناس خيرا، فسيجمعهم علي خيرهم، كما جمعهم بعد نبيهم علي خيرهم”

Master Qazwini’s response:

He said if “Ali” [AS] didn’t know their caliphate legitimate he wouldn’t swear allegiance with them, this is the explicit text of “Sahih Bukhar” and “Sahih Muslim” books that during those six months:

As long as Hadrat “Fatimah” was alive Commander of the faithful [AS] and not of “Bani Hashem” swore allegiance.

It’s a definitive matter and no one can find fault with it.

He said that “Ali” [AS] swore allegiance with them, it’s what is written in Sunni resources, but in Shia resources we don’t have even one authentic-document narrative that shows this allegiance. There are just some “Mursal” {narrative in which the name of some of narrators has been deleted} and invalid narratives that our elders have responded them. Late Shaykh “Mufid” says in “Fusul al-Mukhtarah” book, p 56:

“و المحققون من أهل الإمامة يقولون: لم يبابع علي ساعة قط”

Shia researchers believe that Hadrat “Ali” didn’t swear allegiance with “Abu-Bakr”, “Umar” and “Uthman” even for one hour,

As for his saying that Hadrat “Ali” [AS] named three of his sons after caliphs, I’ve already answered it, these names were common names and it wasn’t because of caliphs, on the other hand, one of the companions of prophet is “Uthman bin Maz’un” and commander of the faithful Ali said that because I was interested in him I named my son “Uthamn”. And as for naming his son “Umar”, he said: “Umar” himself named my son “Umar” and about “Abu-Bakr”, it’s nickname not name.

The name of about 25 of companions was “Umar” and 26 of them were “Uthman” and 2 or 3 of them were “Abu-Bakr”. Perhaps “Ali” [AS] named his sons “Abu-Bakr”, “Umar” and “Uthman” because he was interested in companions of prophet [PBUH].

He said that Hadrat “Ali” [AS] was their police chief, it’s amongst historical lies. Commander of the faithful [AS] was never the police chief of “Abu-Bakr”, “Umar” and “Uthman”, but he would reject their acts practically and by his sayings. There are many sermons in “Nahj al-Balagha” book and numerous narratives in Sunni resources in which commander of the faithful [AS] didn’t know the caliphate of “Abu-Bakr”, “Umar” and “Uthman” legitimate.

Master Qazwini’s question from Mr.”Mullazadeh”:

You dears {Sunnis} believe that prophet [PBUH] didn’t select anyone as caliph and people selected “Abu-Bakr” as caliph, if prophet didn’t select caliph and Quran says:

لَقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِي رَسُولِ اللَّهِ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ 

In the Messenger of Allah you have a fine example for he who hopes for Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah abundantly

Sura Al-Ahzab / 21

So why did “Abu-Bakr” select “Umar” as his successor? If this act of “Abu-Bakr” were right, so what prophet [PBUH] did must be wrong and if act of prophet [PBUH] were right, so what “Abu-Bakr” did must be wrong, as well as about “Umar” and “Uthamn”.

Mr.Mullazadah’s response:

Firstly: I reject that Hadrat “Ali” [AS] didn’t swear allegiance with caliphs, it’s written in “Comments on the Peak of Eloquence” book, v 6, p 48 from “Ibn abi I-Hadid”:

When Hadrat “Ali [AS] was asked that why Muslims selected “Abu-Bakr” as caliph? He answered:

“و أنا لنري أبا بكر أحق الناس بها، إنه لصاحب الغار و ثاني إثنين”

We know “Abu-Bakr” the most competent person for caliphate after prophet [PBUH].

Prophet [PBUH] ordered him to say prayer in his place. Many of doubts were said but remained without response such as: hadith of “Ghadir”.

Secondly: as for this question that why prophet [PBUH] didn’t select caliph but “Abu-Bakr” selected caliph, if prophet [PBUH] would select caliph, it’d be “Shar’” {religious law} and prophet [PBUH] would be god, and if “Abu-Bakr” selected caliph, it wouldn’t be “Shar’” and I was his “Ijtihad” {superior canonical scholarship (enabling the person to develop a capacity for making conclusions, and offer verdict on controversial propositions based on his interpretation of the Holy Quran and Traditions which is the highest level of religious scholarship} if prophet [PBUH] had selected successor, caliphate must have become hereditary until the day of resurrection and it’s the act of kings; but “Abu-Bakr” did what he knew is the best and suggested the best person of nation not that he selected him. If people didn’t swear allegiance with “Umar”, he wouldn’t have legitimate caliphate; because caliphate is earthly not heavenly, as Hadrat “Ali” [AS] said:

إنه بايعني القوم الذين بايعوا أبابكر و عمر و عثمان. فإن اجتمعوا علي رجل و سموه إماما كان ذلك لله رضي، فإن خرج من أمرهم خارج بطعن أو بدعة ردوه إلي ما خرج منه، فإن أبي قاتلوه

People who swore allegiance with “Abu-Bakr” and “Umar”, swore allegiance with me.If they swear allegiance with someone, god would be pleased of that, their satisfaction is god’s satisfaction. If someone breaches allegiance must be taken back swearing allegiance otherwise he must be killed.

Nahj al-Balagha- letter 6

If “Ali” [AS] would see your opinion and thought, he must have punished you. This is Hadrat “Ali” [AS]’s opinion written in “Nahj al-Balagha”. So Hadrat “Ali”- as all historians say- swore allegiance, but you deny these successive issues in this regard and you say what you like to say, I say narrative from your books {Shia books} and you say it’s invalid.

Mr. Mullazadeh’s question from Master Qazwini:

Why didn’t Hadrat “Ali” [AS] bring Imamate and guardianship up? Tens of Imams reject “Ghadir” hadith and some of them accept. Why was this belief secret? Why was it for Hadrat “Ali” [AS] and then it was extended to 12 persons? When Abdullah bin Saba’ discussed the matter “guardianship”, it was especial for Hadrat “Ali” [AS] and then guys like “devil Al-Taq” and others extended it to rest of “Ahl al-Bayt” [AS], even Hadrat “Ali” [AS] didn’t know that Imam is appointed by god.

Master Qazwiwni’s response:

We made a deal not disrespect and calling “Mu’min alTaq”, “devil al-Taq” is blow you dignity and I’m not going to reciprocate and:

“وَ إِذَا خَاطَبَهُمُ الْجَاهِلُونَ قَالُوا سَلَامًا”

The worshipers of the Merciful are those who walk humbly on the earth, and when the ignorant address them say: 'Peace,

Sura Al-Furqan / 63

Mu’min al-Taq” was a prominent figure and was amongst the companions of Imam “Sadiq” [AS] and generation of “Bani Umayyad” calls him “Devil al-Taq”.

As for Hadith of “Ghadir” that he said that many of Imams reject it, I don’t know what he means when he says Imams? Most of Sunni elders believe that this hadith is authentic and successive; even Mr.”Ziya’ al-Din Muqbili” says in “Al-Abhath al-Musabbabah fi al-Sunuon al-Muta’addadah” book, v 2, p 30:

“إن لم يكن معلوما، فما في الدين معلوم”

I we doubt about the event of “Ghadir” and say that it’s not definitive, nothing definitive will left for us in Shar’ {religious law}.

Mirza Muhammad Bidakhshani” says in “Nozol al-Abrar” book, p 54, old edition:

“حديث صحيح مشهور و لم يتكلم في صحته الا متعصب جاهد لا اعتبار بقوله”

Ghadir” hadith is an authentic and well-known hadith and no one will doubt its validity other than a fanatic person that we can’t trust his saying.

Ibn Kathir Damascene” says:

“قال شيخنا الحافظ ابو عبد الله الذهبي: الحديث متواتر، أتيقن أن رسول الله قاله”

Our master, “Al-Dhahabi” says: “Ghadir” hadith is successive and I’m certain that messenger of god [PBUH] has said it.

Ibn Kathir Damascene”, Al-Bidaya wa 'l-Nihaya- v 5, p 233

Mr.”Suyuti” has said this narrative in “al-Ahadith al-Mutawatira” book and some of Sunni elders such as: “Ibn Abd al-Barr”, “Hakim Nishapuri”, “Tirmidhi”, “Al-Dhahabi” and “Tahawi” and… have said explicitly that hadith of “Ghadir” is authentic, he said some of Imams didn’t accept this hadith, I wish he had said the name of some them with document.

Master Qazwini’s question:

He said one of the reasons that shows that caliphate of “Abu-Bakr” is legitimate is that he said prayer instead of prophet [PBUH] when he sent “Abu-Bakr” to mosque as the leader of prayers. We ask that why when prophet [PBUH] said:

“ائتوني بقلم و كتف”

Or:

“هلم أكتب لكم كتابا لن تضلوا بعدي”

Umar” said:

“إن الرجل ليهجر”

Or:

“قد غلبه الوجع”

Sahih Bukhari”, v 1, p 37 and v 4, p 31 and v 5, p 137 and v 7, p 9 /// “Sahih Muslim”, v 5, p 75

And fierce dissensions occurred there and it’s in “Sahih Bukhari” and “Sahih Muslim” that whenever “Ibn Abbas” would remember this event would say:

“الرزية كل الرزية ما حال الرجل بين رسول الله و كتابته”

Sahih Bukhari, v 5, p 138 and v 7, p 9 /// Sahih Muslim, v 5, p 76

How is it that when prophet [PBUH] wanted to write will, they said:

“إن الرجل ليهجر”

But about act of prophet [PBUH] in sending him to mosque, they say :

إن الرجل لا يهجر

 

Mr. Mullazadeh’s response:

As for Hadith of “velayat” {guardianship} it seems like he doesn’t know that it’s not like that this hadith isn’t written in “Sahih Bukhari” and “Sahih Muslim”- two Sunni books- but people and Islam Imams have different opinions in its validity. “Bukhari” who has the most important Hadith book and “Abraham Fardi” and … have found fault with this hadith and said that it’s invalid, “Ahmad bin Hanbal” says that it’s authentic and “Ibn Hazm” who is one of Islam big Imams says that this hadith hasn’t been proved through reliable persons. It’s not like that this hadith is not successive, but there is dissension amongst scholars in this regard that some of them have rejected it completely and even most of them say that this hadith is “Hasan” {narrative that all its narrators are Imami and have been praised but their just hasn’t been restated} not “Sahih” {its narrators are reliable and Shia, in fact we’re sure that infallible Imam has said it}

One the other hand, you always accuse “Umar” that he didn’t let prophet [PBUH] to write, it’s big lie and “Umar” didn’t say that sentence and this sentence was said on Thursday and prophet [PBUH] passed away on Monday and if this sentence weren’t out of “ijtihad” and were divine revelation, prophet [PBUH] wouldn’t underact in saying divine revelation. Prophet [PBUH] knew that people wouldn’t choose anyone other than “Abu-Bakr” and it’s been about “Abu-Bakr” not others, prophet [PBUH] knew people would choose “Abu-Bakr” that’s why he didn’t write it down and it shows that it’s not divine revelation and is prophet [PBUH]’s “Ijtihad” and “Ijtihad” is s virtue.

You believe that prophet [PBUH] had selected Hadrat “Ali” [AS] as his successor, what’s the use in writing it down? Hadrat “Ali” [AS] never relied on this matter and didn’t say that I use the event of “Ghadir Khumm” to prove that I’m caliph. That verse was sent down in “Hudaybiyyah” peace and you connected it to prophet [PBUH]’s last “Hajj”. Hadrat “Ali” [AS] never relied on things which are now said about his caliphate and Imamate. Harat “Ali” [AS] was united with companions of prophet [PBUH] and would say about them what Quran has said about them:

وَ السَّابِقُونَ الْأَوَّلُونَ مِنَ الْمُهَاجِرِينَ وَ الْأَنْصَارِ وَ الَّذِينَ اتَّبَعُوهُمْ بِإِحْسَانٍ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُمْ وَ رَضُوا عَنْهُ وَ أَعَدَّ لَهُمْ جَنَّاتٍ تَجْرِي تَحْتَهَا الْأَنْهَارُ خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا أَبَدًا ذَلِكَ الْفَوْزُ الْعَظِيمُ.

Surah Al-Tawba / 100

God has promised “Muhajirin” and “Ansar” going to paradise.

You excommunicate them to raise him and it neither scientific nor Islamic.

Mr. Mulla Zadeh’s question from Master Qazwini:

Hadrat “Ali” [AS] never claimed caliphate and even intellect denies it. Some of companions of prophet [PBUH] were in “Saqifah Bani Sa’idah” {On the day Muhammad died (June 8, 632 CE), the Medinan Muslim or "Ansar" gathered in the Saqifah to discuss the future and leadership of the Muslims} why did they hide the caliphate of Hadrat “Ali” [AS]? Did “Abu-Bakr” have army and wealth giving them money selecting him? Isn’t kind of accusing prophet [PBUH] that he failed training his disciples who hid prophet [PBUH]’s saying and selected another person as caliph?

Master Qazwini’s response:

As for his saying that Hadrat “Ali” [AS] didn’t talk about his caliphate, if he refers to “Imamate and policy” book, v 1, p 30, form “Ibn Qutaybah” searched by Mr. ”Shiri”, he’ll see that when “Abu-Bakr” sent “Qunfuz” to commander of the faithful [AS] and said:

“ فقال أبوبكر لقنفد و هو مولي له: إذهب فادع لي عليا، قال: فذهب إلي علي، فقال له: ما حاجتك؟ فقال: يدعوك خليفة رسول الله، فقال علي: لسريع ما كذبتم علي رسول الله”

Hadrat “Ali” [AS] said:

How quickly you guys ascribed lie to prophet [PBUH] and the guy who is not caliph, you put him the caliph of prophet [PBUH]?!

It’s written in “Sahih Bukhari” and “Sahih Muslim” books that when “Abu-Bakr” went to Hadrat “Ali” [AS] after six months, commander of the faithful Ali [AS] said:

“إستبددت علينا”

You oppressed us.

Sahih Bukhari- v 5, p 83- Sahih Muslim- v 5, p 154

Or when he says:

“كاذبا آثما غادرا خائنا”

Sahih Muslim, v 5, p 152

I hope he doesn’t say that this narrative is invalid as well!

It’s written in “Comments on the Peak of Eloquence” book that Hadrat “Ali” said:

“لا يقاس بآل محمد من هذه الأمه أحد ... و لهم خصائص حق الولاية و فيهم الوصية و الوراثة”

The right of caliphate is in prophet [PBUH]’s dynasty.

Ibn Abi’l Hadid”, comments on the Peak of Eloquence- v 1, p 138

And when caliphate reached to commander of the faithful [AS], he said:

“الآن إذ رجع الحق إلي أهله و نقل إلي منتقله”

Now right has reached the one who was right and what was taken to another place by force has now reached us.

Ibn Abi’l Hadid”, comments on the Peak of Eloquence- v 1, p 139

Or this saying of commander of the faithful [AS]:

“فوالله! ما زلت مدفوعا عن حقي، مستأثرا علي منذ قبض الله نبيه صلي الله عليه حتي يوم الناس هذا”

Swear by god, they had been oppressing me since prophet [PBUH] left the world.

Ibn Abi’l Hadid”, comments on the Peak of Eloquence- v 1, p 223

فوالله! ما كان يلقي في روعي و لا يخطر علي بالي أن العرب تعدل هذا الأمر بعد محمد عن أهل بيته و لا أنهم منحوه عني من بعده.

I didn’t believe that after prophet [PBUH], people behave me this way.

Ibn Abi’l Hadid”, comments on the Peak of Eloquence- v 6, p 95

Master Qzwini’s question from Mr.”Mullazadeh”:

He persists that prophet [PBUH] has said narratives about “Abu-Bakr” in this regard {caliphate} or Abu-Bakr’s saying prayer instead of prophet or this sentence:

“يأبي الله و المومنون إلا أبابكر”

Shows that Prophet [PBUH] has appointed “Abu-Bakr” as caliph while the saying of “Umar” written in “Sahih Muslim” and “Sahih Bukhari” is opposite of it:

When “Umar” was asked:

“قيل لعمر: ألا تستخلف؟ قال: إن إستخلف فقد إستخلف من هو خير مني أبو بكر و إن أترك فقد ترك من هو خير مني رسول الله صلي الله عليه و سلم”

Sahih Bukhari- v 8, p 126 /// Sahih Muslim, v 6, p 4

And “Nuwi” one of Sunni big scholars, says:

We have no narrative regarding Abu-Bakr’s caliphate.

Ibn Kathir” and “Iji” say such thing either. Explain about it.

Mr. Mullazadeh’s response:

The book that he says it belongs to “Ibn Qutaybah Dinwari” is a book that has been ascribed to him and scholars doubt if it really belongs to him. Hadrat “Ali” swore allegiance twice, both before Hadrat Fatimah’s demise and after that.

As for his question regarding Abu-Bakr’s caliphate, his caliphate is selective not that he was oppinted. I didn’t say he was appointed. Prophet [PBUH] determined him as candidate and did “Ijtihad” that he’s the best person for caliphate and then he knew that people will select no one other than him, it’s very clear thing. When you rely on this narrative:

“هلم أكتب لكم كتابا لن تضلوا بعدي”

It means that you accept this narrative, it shows that prophet [PBUH] hadn’t willed, so prophet [PBUH] hadn’t appointed Hadrat “Ali” [AS] as caliph.

Isn’t it plot that we search after 1400 years to see who the legitimate caliph was? All this blood was shed in Islam History, all this dissension and division, all of them were because of Imam:

“تِلْكَ أُمَّةٌ قَدْ خَلَتْ لَهَا مَا كَسَبَتْ وَ لَكُمْ مَا كَسَبْتُمْ وَ لَا تُسْأَلُونَ عَمَّا كَانُوا يَعْمَلُونَ”

Sura Al-Baghara / 134

There were a nation and died, we’re not questioned about what they did, but you say that Imamate is Prophecy, you’ve even put it instead of bearing witness about theism. You claim that anyone who doesn’t believe in guardianship is not believer. You don’t know all Muslims believer. Think little bit. Hadrat “Ali” [AS] wasn’t like this. Narratives that you quote from Hadrat “Ali” [AS] are quite invalid and all of them are narratives which are written in your {Shia} books and other Muslims don’t accept them. Hadrat “Ali” [AS] was in good term with rest of companions of prophet [PBUH].

Hadrat “A’isha” says:

Prophet [PBUH] didn’t will.

Hadrat “Ali” [AS] says:

Prophet [PBUH] didn’t will.

It shows that prophet Muhammad [PBUH] didn’t select caliph.

“Ibn Abbas” wanted to go to prophet asking about caliphate. Hadrat “Ali” [AS] told him: no, if we go to prophet [PBUH] and he doesn’t give us caliphate, people will deprive us from caliphate forever.

You didn’t answer my question. All this opinion was discussed in “Saqifa” and “Bani Sa’edah” council, why would they select “Abu-Bakr” and put Hadrat “Ali” aside? Why would they sell their religion for “Abu-Bakr”? How is it that these Sahaba are praised in Quran and are given paradise promise? You don’t respond these questions and go after narratives, with narratives we can never get to conclusion. How come that all companions of prophet [PBUH] forgot these narratives and Hadrat “Ali” [AS] forgot these narratives either?

So let’s come out of this circle that enemies of Islam have made for us and made us to quarrel 1400 years and what is happening in Iraq and other places is the result of this evil plot. We don’t have to let our enemies to misuse us because of these narratives. At least, we shouldn’t increase dissension, division and conflict amongst Muslims.

Since when we must be in narratives prison? How long me and you must be in 1400-year ago prison? There is nothing in Quran about Imamate, Quran talks about small and big “Ahkam” but it doesn’t talk about Imamate that you know it higher than prophecy.

Mr. Mullazadeh’s question from master Qazwini:

The guardianship that you’re talking about was a secret belief, what is written in Shia books implies it either:

Guardianship was a secret that was given to Hadrat “Gabriel” and Hadrat “Gabriel” gave it to Prophet Muhammad [PBUH] and Hadrat Muhammad [PBUH] gave it to Hadrat “Ali” [AS] and he gave it to anyone that he wanted. Then “Abu Ja’far” says: don’t reveal this secret.

Why wasn’t this promise revealed at the time of “Sahaba” and why plotters discussed it against Islam later on? It shows that Hadrat “Ali” [AS] was aware of guardianship and these narratives were created later on. “Abdullah Saba’” publicized these narratives. Why did they publicize them? Why when didn’t Hadrat “Abu-Bakr”,”Umar”, “Uthman” and “Ali” [AS] talk about imamate and guardianship?

My question is that why did Hadrat “Ali” [AS] know his guardianship earthly and not heavenly? He would say that the source of my guardianship is people not god.

Master Qazwini’s response:

He said that Ibn Qutaybah Dinwari’s book isn’t his, well, refer to “Al-A’lam” book from Mr. “Zirikli” and “Mu’jam al-Matbua’t”, “Mu’jam al-Mu’allifin” and.. all say that this book belongs to “ibn Qutaybah al-Dīnawarī ”.

He said that you {Shia} put guardianship higher than theism, it’s an aspersion towards Shia which has been said during history even at the time “Ibn Taymiyyah” until now that these guys discuss it.

But we believe that we have authentic narrative that when this verse was sent down:

الْيَوْمَ أَكْمَلْتُ لَكُمْ دِينَكُمْ و َأَتْمَمْتُ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعْمَتِي وَ رَضِيتُ لَكُمُ الْإِسْلَامَ دِينًا

This day I have perfected your religion for you and completed my favor to you. I have approved Islam to be your religion.

Sura Al-Maeda / 3

It means that Islam was perfected by Hadrat Ali [AS]’s guardianship and without his guardianship there isn’t Islam. As “Khwarizmi” restates in “Al-Manaqib” and quotes from Prophet Muhammad [PBUH]:

يا علي! لو أن عبدا عبد الله مثل ما دام نوح في قومه، و كان له مثل جبل أحد ذهبا فأنفقه في سبيل الله و مد عمره حتي حج الف عام علي قدميه، ثم قتل بين الصفا و المروة مظلوما، ثم لم يوالك يا علي لم يشم رائحة الجنة و لم يدخلها

O “Ali”! if someone says prayer all day and night and worships and lives one thousand years and he goes to Mecca performing “Hajj” and has gold as much as “Uhud” mountain and distributes it in charity in god’s path but he doesn’t have your guardianship, he won’t inhale the fragrance of paradise.

“Khwarazmi”- Al-Manaqib- p 68 /// “ibn Shahr Ashub”- Manaqib Manaqib of Ale Abi Talib, v 3, p 2

And hadith “Thaqalayn” that I don’t think anyone to deny it other than fanatic person:

إني تارك فيكم الثقلين كتاب الله و عترتي أهل بيتي، إن تمسكتم بهما لن تضلوا بعدي.

Sahih Muslim, v 7, p 123 /// “Al-Hakim Nishapuri”- al-Mustadrak alaa al-Sahihain”, v 3, p 109 and 110 /// “Musnad Ahmad”, v 3, p 14 /// Tafsir Ibn Kathir, v 4, p 123 /// “Al-Haythami”, Majma’ al-zawa’id- v 9, p 163 /// “Al-Bayhaqi”- Sunan al-Kubra, v 10, p 114 // “Sunan al-Darimi”- v 2, p 432 /// “Ibn Sa’d”- al-Tabaqat al-Kubra- v 2, p 194

Prophet [PBUH] has performed ultimatum. Prophet [PBUH] said:

هلم اكتب لكم كتابا لن تضلوا بعدي

It was because prophet [PBUH] knew what’s going to happen, there is authentic narrative in this regard and Mr. ”Hakim Nishapuri” says that this narrative is valid, prophet [PBUH] said to hadrat “Ali” [AS]:

إن الأمه ستغدر بك بعدي يا علي

After me, this nation will betray you.

“Al-Hakim Nishapuri”- al-Mustadrak alaa al-Sahihain- v 3, p 140 /// “Al-Haythami”- Majma’ al-Zawa’id- v 9, p 137 /// “Ibn ‘Adai”- al-Kamil, v6, p216 /// “Ibn Asakir”- The History of Damascus, v 42, p 477

Or this narrative:

ضغائن في صدور قوم لا يبدونها لك إلا بعدي

O “Ali”! I see grudges in people’s heart that after me they’ll show their grudges.

“Al-Haythami”- Majma’ al-Zawa’id”- v 9, p 118 /// “Al-Tabarani”- al-Mu’jam al-Kabir- v 11, p 61 // “Ibn Abi’I-Hadid”- comments on the Peak of Eloquence- v 4, p 107 /// “Al-Dhahabi- Mizan al-I’tidal- v 3, p 355

And that prophet Muhammad [PBUH] said:

My companions will become apostate.

I wish we have time in the future talking about companions of prophet [PBUH], do Quran verse praise only companions of prophet [PBUH]? Or not, are there verses dispraising Sahabah {companions of prophet}, I hope that we aren’t the instance of this verse:

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَكْفُرُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَ رُسُلِهِ ... وَ يَقُولُونَ نُؤْمِنُ بِبَعْضٍ وَ نَكْفُرُ بِبَعْضٍ وَ يُرِيدُونَ أَنْ يَتَّخِذُوا بَيْنَ ذَلِكَ سَبِيلًا

Those who disbelieve in Allah and His Messengers… and say, 'we believe in some (Prophets Moses and Jesus), and disbelieve in some of them (such as Prophet Muhammad), ' desiring to take between this (and that) a way (between belief and disbelief) 

Sura An-Nisa/ 150

And that Quran says about Sahabah:

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آَمَنُوا إِنْ جَاءَكُمْ فَاسِقٌ بِنَبَأٍ فَتَبَيَّنُوا أَنْ تُصِيبُوا قَوْمًا بِجَهَالَةٍ فَتُصْبِحُوا عَلَي مَا فَعَلْتُمْ نَادِمِينَ

Believers, if an evildoer brings you a piece of news, inquire first, in case you should unwittingly wrong others and then repent of what you have done.

Sura Al-Hujraat / 6

But what’s very important is hadith of “Huwz” that when “Bira’ bin Azib” was told:

طوبي لك، صحبت النبي صلي الله عليه و سلم و بايعته تحت الشجرة، فقال: يا ابن أخي! انك لا تدري ما أحدثنا بعده

Good for you, you were with prophet [PBUH]...“Bira’” said: my nephew! You have no idea that what “bid’ah” {innovation in religion} we made after prophet [PBUH].

“Sahih Bukhari”- v 5, p 66 /// “Al-Ayni”- Umdat al-Qari”, v 17, p 222 // “Ibn Hajar Asqalani”- Fath al-Bari fi Sharh sahih bukhari- p 433

And “A’isha” was asked:

عن قيس بن أبي حازم، قال: قالت عائشة رضي الله عنها و كان تحدث نفسها أن تدفن في بيتها مع رسول الله صلي الله عليه و آله و أبي بكر، فقالت: إني أحدثت بعد رسول الله صلي الله عليه و سلم حدثا، أدفنوني مع أزواجه، فدفنت بالبقيع.

هذا حديث صحيح علي شرط الشيخين و لم يخرجاه

 Would you like to be buried next to prophet [PBUH]’s grave? She said: No, I wouldn’t, burry me in “Baqi’” cemetery next to other prophet [PBUH]’s wives; because i made some “Bid’ah” after messenger of god [PBUH].

“Al-Hakim Nishapuri”- Al-Mustadrak alaa al-Sahihain- v 4, p 6 /// “Al-Dhahabi”- Siyar al-A’lam al-Nubala’- v 2, p 193

And it’s written in “Sahih Bukhari” and “Sahih Muslim” that prophet [PBUH] said:

They take my companions toward Hell and I ask them where are you taking them? They say: to the hell, I’ll ask: what’s their charge? They say:

إنك لا علم لك بما أحدثوا بعدك، إنهم ارتدوا علي أدبارهم القهقري

… After you, they became prostate and returned to ignorance time. {their acts}

And it’s written in “Sahih Bukhari” that prophet [PBUH] said:

فلا أراه يخلص منهم إلا مثل همل النعم

Just a few of my companions will survive from the hell.

“Sahih Bukhari”- v 7, p 208

We should open our eyes and see everything, this is Quran verse:

أَفَإِنْ مَاتَ أَوْ قُتِلَ انْقَلَبْتُمْ عَلَي أَعْقَابِكُمْ

If he dies or is killed, will you turn about on your heels?

Sura Al-E-Imran / 144

 



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